Wednesday, 1 December 2010

Are Gooners Hypocrites Or Just Desperate?

In a way I find it slightly embarrassing that we are chasing the Carling Cup 'trophy' after dismissing it as being 'Mickey Mouse' in recent years.

When the Spuds won it I laughed. It wasn't a 'real' trophy and we had better things to aim for. Watching them parade the Carling Cup had me pissing my knickers.

We were the mighty Arsenal and 'that' trophy was beneath us.

Even the FA Cup, a competition Arsene Wenger used to take seriously, took a backseat as we pursued the major honours in the game.

The Premiership title and Champions League were our targets. Especially Arsene Wenger's.

Now what? Finally the Carling Cup is being taken seriously because we haven't won a thing for nearly six years.

I don't buy it. How can I?

Sorry, I know it would be great to actually win something after so long (despite the longer periods of not winning things in our history) without silverware but for some reason I'd feel a bit hypocritical to celebrate winning the Carling Cup.

Of course I want Arsenal to win the damn thing. I want Arsenal to win everything but we usually 'dismiss' the Carling Cup as a youth exercise and that is down to Arsene Wenger.

Over the years Wenger has blooded his youngsters through this competition and now we have to win it, to keep the pressure off him, we are using stronger team-sheets and it all seems slightly fake to me.

I know the players are professionals and should aim to win every trophy but they would have noticed that Wenger in recent years has seen the Carling Cup as second-rate. A cup not really worth winning so why now?

I hate having a pop at Wenger, believe me I do, but how can we go from not caring about the Carling Cup to it suddenly becoming a major honour again?

By treating the Carling Cup (and FA Cup) as being not that 'important' to win Wenger has bred complacency in the squad. They are both more than winnable competitions and maybe if taken a little more seriously in the past, and not just now, we wouldn't have gone without a trophy since 2005.

On the positive side winning the Carling Cup could springboard this Arsenal squad onto future success. That would be brilliant and of course that is the view of a lot of Gooners these days.

I do understand that reasoning. I believe that could be the case too.

However I think raising the Carling Cup is more down to keeping people off Wenger's back. People have been banging on about us not winning things for a while now and Arsene is under-pressure, probably the most pressure in his Arsenal career, to win something.

I'm just finding it hard to get excited about the Carling Cup. I've spent so long not even considering it as a 'proper' trophy that I feel a bit embarrassed that now it is considered a priority.

Maybe I'm just being a mug and should be more grateful that we are in with a serious shout of winning something but its just the way I feel.

Keep it Goonerish.............

43 comments:

Anonymous said...

Correct.

You are a mug, with nothing better to write about.

So fuck off back into hiding you cocksucker.

Wrighty7 said...

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Personally i feel that us playing mostly bench guys who need a game, and a couple starters who are coming back from injury and need time on the pitch to return to form isn't actively trying to win. Arsenal is going to field a team, and this is a good chance to get the bendtners and Velas so game time.

library2.0 said...

I would like to add something wrighty, not sure if I can be so eloquent as the previous response but will try.
£ league cup finals for us stand out.
I do think the Carling cup is worth going for. Back in 1987 it was our first trophy in 8 years. And it was great. So first point, it acts as a spring board for future success (ffs it was the only trophy manure won last year)
In 1993 Mersons celebration and Adams giving Morrow a broken arm to our travelling fans at wembley (and being the first team to win a cup double).
And finally, our defeat to Chelsea in 2007, when Theo showed he was a good player and JT got this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5hd-RJUHIg). Quality

Anonymous said...

i never looked at the cafling cup like a joke. that may be because im only 17

Anonymous said...

I don't think Wenger's philosophy has changed a lot towards the carling cup. it's just that our squad is much bigger now, and players like bendtner, vela, van persie,gibbs, etc. need to play in order to be happy! I think winning the carling cup could spur us onto greater things.

Anonymous said...

Good to see you back. I'm not so sure we are taking this cup so seriously. I can't see more then a couple players starting Saturday that did yesterday. Reguardless I'm going to enjoy a couple extra guinesses come the final, Reguardless of what the throphyless spuds have to say

Anonymous said...

Nice read. The situation certainly feels 'conflicted'. But I look at it this way. This cup has always played an important role for the Club, for different reasons. Clubs are dynamic, changeable, so their relationship to trophies also changes. That takes the hypocrisy out of it.

For instance, with a thinner squad, the milk cup made sense as an opportunity to rest players, and it made sense to build Arsenal's reputation as a youth-friendly destination. That's partly why Rambo, for instance, would choose us over Manure (even if Manure play just as many youngsters - the perception, however, was different). Wenger's reputation for developing youth comes largely from the fact that our youngsters smashed big teams in the milk cup over the last 6-7 years. It's been a treat feeling good about the future of the club, too, even if players like Aliadiere never made it. And I hated losing to Chelsea in the final.

So you'd have to put me in the desperate camp.

Wrighty7 said...

Library 2.0,

I can understand that notion but I just feel a little silly celebrating something (we might win) that we laughed at the Spuds winning before.

Anonymous said...

The competition is a joke but we're playing a reserve team in every game.

It just happens that through years of developing this squad, our reserve squad is now pretty damn good.

Nothing to be ashamed of.

A said...

I won't call you a stuff, but you totally miss the point my friend. Like Anonymous said, it's a good chance for game time for some players, and it doesn't hurt if we win it as long as we are competitive in all competitions. This could be part of the quadruple you know ;) and we really have a really big squad this season. Psychologically it's also good to win it so that it makes the team experiences a winning feeling and that's exactly the perfect motivation for the team at this moment because they have tried hard before and didn't get there, and this group haven't won a trophy yet, so they really don't know what's all the work they're doing is for. Look at the spuds, they started with it and now look where they are, now it's even possible to have a north London derby as a CL final in north-west London lmao

Tony said...

We are doing it to get the media off our back with the whole 6 years without trophy.
Whats the betting if we win it they start saying its 6 years without a MAJOR trophy for arsenal? I fully expect it

arsene-al said...

honestly i don't take it too seriously, but like you mentioned in the end i think wenger just needs these guys to win something, just so they now how it feels. the final piece to the puzzle is for these kids to taste victory, and at this point it's more than winnable for us and i really hope we win it. ill be happy but itll still feel like we just won the emirates cup. nevertheless no matter how it feels for the fans itll be another trophy in the cabinet and itll do the players a lot of good

Wrighty7 said...

I don't want people to think I want Arsenal to 'lose' the chance of winning a trophy.

I don't.

I just wish Wenger had gone for it in the past and not now he is under a lot of pressure to deliver.

Wrighty7 said...

A,

a quadruple would be the only thing that could top being invincible!

Wrighty7 said...

Arsene-al,

That is how I would feel most probably, like it was an Emirates Cup!

Brent said...

: ) Yes you are being a mug...but this is what Arsenal fans have been made to look like these past few months because of the results of certain games/trends this season.

: (

I salute you for asking the question...but I've always thought that if we know we are the best team on the planet...then we should show this by consistently going for and obtaining every accolade possible in our respective league.

That isn't just winning every competition that we take part in...but also looking to set new records (clean sheets, sporting behavior, we should have at least 97 entries in the end of season compilation of 'Top 100 goals this season', all our first team players and second string players should be playing for their international countries, the EPL's team of the season should be our first team...no excuses) etc etc.

I for one would celebrate us winning the Carling Cup...because football still had to be played in order to achieve it...and we all know...results of games are no longer a given these days. I'd rather win it than get thrown out by a team we should be beating.

Greek Gooner said...

i just want to say i totally agree with the 1st comment by Anonumous. Spot on mate.

VanGooner said...

Mate, nice article and I do understand your point but... there's another side of that story. Firstly, it's true that Wenger has diminished the importance of the both cups due to the pursuit of major honors such as the Premiership and CL but if you think about it he's the only one that did that! I'm sure you remember Fergie saying that Carling Cup is not a priority but that was the only trophy they won last year. The Spuds are still bragging about the cup even though they won it in 2008. Chelsea also pretended to show that "we don't give a fuck" attitude regarding the cup but that didn't stop them beating us for it in 2007. My point is, the Carling Cup has been named Worthless, Mickey Mouse Cup etc, but fuck me, it seems that everyone wants to win it. Did you see United's side against the Hammers last night...?

But let's leave it at that, even though this cup slowly regains it's lustre, I'd still say that we are above it and that we should be winning the cups that matter. Still, there's only one reason for me that I want Arsenal to lift the Carling Cup and it's not to end the trophy drought but to be that finishing stimulus to these lads, the final point of their development, the icing of the cake that's called winning mentality, a real evidence of their progress and hard work. This cup will lit em up man, it will do wonders for their self confidence, it will be a small reward for their growth but a huge boost for their future. That's why we shouldn't underestimate the importance of the Carling Cup but we must grab it as hard as we can and start building from there... Keep up the good work! Cheers!

Anonymous said...

I don't think AW's approach is any different this season. We have a much larger squad these days, in part due to blooding youngsters in the Carling Cup in seasons past. Arguably only RVP is first choice out of the eleven that started last night so I don't think you have much of a case this time Wrighty.

Just because we didn't play 8 teenagers doesn't mean we played our best eleven.

Jack Straw said...

Not getting too excited about the opportunity to win the Carling Cup either, but there is one thing you're wrong about I believe. We didn't laugh at Spurs for winning it, we laughed at them for thinking that because they won it they were now a "big" club, and that they are/were more succesful than Arsenal because of it. As others have stated, we are still playing a reserve side and the taste of winning may be just what the team needs. So long as the team and its supporters don't go around bragging about what an accomplishment it is then it can be nothing but a good thing. It alone will not make a succesful season, but it might be what takes us to the next level.

Anonymous said...

Actually, Man Utd won the CC in 2006, that was a first for Roon,Ron, and carick. May be we need it for the players to get a taste of winning and to believe?

Wrighty7 said...

Ahh Greek Gooner, you used to be so kind on here!

Wrighty7 said...

Well said Vangooner!

Danny said...

spot on once again wrighty mate! us gooners havent heard from you in a while, you been hibernating in shame after the spurs fiasco? wouldnt blame you to be honest pal :/

Anonymous said...

you are supposed to belittle your rivals (although spurs aint really that but you get the point :-) ) especially when they havent been close to winning the 'big' prizes for 40 years or so and celebrate the carling cup like a 'big' prize - that said us winning it is like man utd winning it - its a trophy but not really the ones we crave - but a trophy is a trophy - i think the significance would be if it was the FIRST prize this squad won - break the duck / stop the rot...whatever you wanna call it that and no more

Utkarsh said...

Shouldnt u be happy we have finally got a squad where we can make 10 changes to a team and still have almost zero drop in quality,its not like he is playing his first 11, he is playing reserves and players who are not getting game time in the premier league matches.. I think there is nothing desperate about it. Only Arsenal can stop Arsenal from winning something this time

Anonymous said...

Difference is we are competiting at the top end and going for the carling cup. The spuds won it whilst swimming around in mid table mediocrity and we pointed out 4th was a far better achievement (which it is). If we were 10th and celebrated whilst the unwashed were in the champions league we would be hypocrits.

Wrighty7 said...

Hi Danny,

Nah mate I've just been so busy grafting.

Finding it really hard to blog at the moment.

Wanna pick it up again though!

I miss getting called a cocksucker!

Anonymous said...

personally i think wenger thought we lost the league in 2005 because of pursuit of the FA cup and has prioritized ever since

i'm not too bothered about the carling cup, it's only appeal to me is to make everyone shut the f**k up about the trophy "drought" (50 years) so we can concentrate on playing

Anonymous said...

I want us to win every competition we enter - A choice between another season with a top 4 finish only or a top 4 finish + a carling cup win, I'd happily celebrate the Carling cup win even if it really doesnt mean as much as the League, CL, FA Cup.

One of my fondest memories of supporting Arsenal was watching the Cup winners cup win back in the 90's - I guess today that would be considered a lesser competition but the memories of that day will stick with me forever.

I take your point though - My reaction to Tottenham fans winning the league cup was 'tell us when you win a real competition', But that was largely down to the ones I know gloating about it as if they were the biggest club in the world...

Rhyle said...

I for one resolutely mocked the Spuds when they won the Mickey Mouse Cup.

I'll go to the final to be fair...but don't expect me to crow about "silverware" if we win.

I think the most I'll talk it up is that it is a "nice" trophy to win, not a great one.

That should stop the Yidiots I work with getting on my case...'course, at Wembley (if we get there) I'll be singing, cheering and going as nuts as any other gooners if we win.

But no one else needs to know that...

Anonymous said...

I understand your point completely but there's a difference between us winning it and the spuds doing it. If we were to win this year of course we would celebrate but if that was the only thing we won would we consider it a successful season? No. For the spuds the Carling Cup is their pinnacle, for us it is a nice little bonus but by no means season-defining.

Also, don't underestimate how massive it would be for the players, not just Wenger, to stop the media continuously whacking them with the '5 years without a trophy' stick.

Danny said...

ahh i see mate, all graft and no blogging makes wrighty a rare blogger... getting called stuff probably comes with the territory though i suppose mate, not everyone can see stuff the right way can they pal? ha ;)

Anonymous said...

come on lad, im sure ur way more intelligent than that?

Anonymous said...

Wrighty, I read you from time to time and have probably agreed with you once. Well twice now.

The Carling Cup is a mickey mouse cup, always has been all ways will be. Believing the cup to be any differerent is just a sign of how far we have fallen.

That said, its our best chance of trophy for the next 5 years.

Bootoomee said...

Got to disagree with you Wrighty!

I previously posted the following response to an article on Untold Arsenal:

It really is insulting hearing the moronic media and the retarded AAA talking about AW taking the CC serious because of desperation to win trophies. Can any sane fan believe these idiots? Arsene’s approach has not changed – not one bit! He has always used a careful mix of (1) youth players, (1) squad players and (3) 1st teamers in need of games. The proportion of the mix is determined by the quality of the opposition e.g. compare the team that thrashed Sheffield United 6-0 with the one that lost 3-0 to Shitty.

What has been changing is the players maturity as AW keeps giving them chances to play. While it is always painful for us fans when they falter, one can only imagine how bad Arsene must feel with the pain of the loss and the bile from the know-it-all brigade. Now that the project is bearing fruit resulting in the best squad in the country, rather than raise their hands, admit they were wrong and give credit where it is due, they changed the tune to “he is now taking the CC serious”. Bunch of jokers!

Barney said...

A trophy, any trophy would give a tremendous boost to all the players.. Everyone is living under Fabregas's shadow and in a way, psychologically speaking, this will even out the team. Maybe its more of a mental exercise to make them stronger in their heads and help push them past their late puberty or adolescent stage into a more of a manly approach.. I have been lucky to have been born to witness the invincible era.. Nothing I see from Arsenal will come close to match up to it.. atleast I don't see anything happening like that in the near future.. But I would love it if i were made to eat my own words here.. But I'll take the Carling cup now and come May, the Champions league, the Premier league and the FA cup.. and if possible, soundly thrash Barcelona like they dished it out to Madrid the other day..

Anonymous said...

disagree..

we need this cup..we have the strongest pl squad but they havent won anything so the mental issues are still there..

this team needs a trophy..any trophy, we need a launchpad to get this team focused and the CC is perfect..

now we are in the semis and we are the strongest team we should go all out to get it..

u dont breed winners by not giving a shit about silverware..

so what if its the CC cup..

to be honest id be happy with our customery 4th spot and the CC cup. and u never know with the CC final in feb/march it might just give us the impetous we need to put a little run together at the business end of the season..

dont knock it mate..i think winning this trophy is the key to winning the PL and CL..

Anonymous said...

Well said Wrighty you are a rare gem ")

Anonymous said...

well, the real worry we should all have, is how everyone is assuming we are going to win the bloody thing! I sure as hell hope we do but there are three games to go before the trophy is ours regardless of its worth.

Whilst we may be favourites, all this talk assumes that we've won teh furking thing - too much complacency and the press will be saying 6 years without a trophy. Lets win it first huh - three games to go and we all know in football anything can happen on the day!!

Anonymous said...

The CC cup was used by Wenger as competitive practice for the youngsters, and we have always done well in it, reaching the latter stages, even the final, almost every time. Also, the youngsters Wenger has "developed" through this cup proves that without winning it, we've actually gained more from our policy towards the cup. Over the years, Fabregas, Denilson, Song, Wilshere, Eastmond, Clichy, Fabianski, Sczezny, Bendnter, Vela and Walcott are just some of the players that started their careers in the CC Cup, and those players are playing in the CC Cup again this year, only they are better and more experienced, hence the "perception" we are playing our first team. But in every round this year, we have made wholsale changes to the CC team, against Wigan NINE changes from the league game, that tells you something.

Also, whilst it is still the Micky Mouse cup capared to the PL and CL, it is a bona-fide cup compared to the "Emirates Cup", and it will still still be a pleasure to win it, but looking at the teams we have had to beat this year, Spurs, Newcastle and Wigan - all PL teams, it's hardly micky mouse competition, so we should actually feel good about it. If we win it, i'll be chuffed to bits and proud of it, but it won't make up for now winning the PL or CL, any Gooner will tell you that - that's not being hypocritical. As for mocking Spurs when they won, for them it was a BIG Trophy, a "we've actually won something in our lives" moment - that's what's funny.

Anonymous said...

Well right now it's a very winnable competition so just go for it. Play a reserve side in the semis both legs and put on the players that deserve it the most in the final. We should relly win this one easily.