Wednesday, 21 January 2009

We pay over the odds for youngsters, so why not established players?

In many ways I admire Arsenal for refusing to pay over the odds in transfer fees. The likes of Manchester City and Chelsea have inflated the market prices by paying ridiculous amounts for players and the rest of football seems to be suffering for it.

Arsenal have always done it a different way that I think is admirable but I'm starting to worry that when it comes to big money signings Arsenal will always refuse to haggle.

We put a price on someone and refuse to budge. The result is we always seem to miss out.

We missed out on Xabi Alonso in the summer for the sake of a couple of million. The Arshavin deal looks to be going the exact same way and I'm starting to think that we will miss out on him too.

As much as I respect Arsenal's transfer policy there are times when the bank needs to broken. Not all the time obviously, but some of the time.

Arsenal can't afford to be involved in bidding wars with other clubs because we would be blown out of the water. But Arsenal can learn to negotiate better when there is no direct competition, which appears to be the situation with Arshavin and of course, Alonso in the summer.

Wenger can't rely on finding raw players and turning them into quality all the time. Sometimes we need to buy proven quality to help the club progress.

Of course if clubs are asking for stupid money for players then I think Arsenal have every right to tell the club to clear off. But I think there are circumstances when Arsenal need to maybe be prepared to pay a little bit extra or we will always struggle to buy new players.

We do it with young players, so why not established players?

Keep it Goonerish.............

42 comments:

faker said...

good read wrighty how goes it?

because of our youngsters, our wage bill is way up there with the likes of manchester and chelsea yet our starting XI gets less relative to other top teams' starting XI's :(

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohmhZVjaqQo

Anonymous said...

In short, youngsters are 1) relatively cheaper, 2) can give you much longer service, and 3) are more likely to appreciate, rather than depreciate, in value. Much as I'd like to see Arshavin in red and white, I think we're right not to pay over the odds. Come on you Reds!

goonertelboy said...

here here ,good shout, we are renowned for being tight fisted,
even bolton paid 12 mil for elmander! bolton for gods sake! we have done nothing but sold players so where is the money?? i think arshavin would settle quickly and easily become one of our best players,
i pray he signs,
cheers wrighty

Ole Gunner said...

Wrighty,

Any examples of us paying over the odds for youngsters?

I personally don't see anything wrong wit Arsenal relying most on finding top quality for lo prices. If we had had to reassemble the invincibles, how could we have done that without that strategy. How much do you reckon it would ahve cost us to assemble this squad?

Anonymous said...

One thing about this transfer sage is that no one actually knows exacly what is going on. Zenit people are talking in the press every day, but they are only talking to get the price up. No one knows which part of their comments are true and I wouldn't be at all surprised if after Arsenal would agree to up their bid by 2 million or so, the asking price would suddenly go up again. Then Arsenal would need to meet that value and... Well, as I said, no one knows for sure.

AusGunner said...

Because paying over the odds for younger talent is cheaper than paying over the odds for older talent... I mean, isn't it fucking obvious?


(ps there is a global economic crisis)


*stares blankly into space, dumbfounded*

Spike said...

Wrighty fella

We dont know what IS going on, we only know that Zenit are doing their best to create an auction for Arshavin, which is their perogative i suppose, thru the media.

Yet again, I saw some hack from SSN telling us he'd spoke to Zenit President and he'd said we are STILL the only club in for him, but were inviting offers from others (obviously money bags City and Inter, who always spunk millions) This was the day after that the same SSN twat had said Arshavin wanted to go to City.

Basically SSN are just spouting shit given to them by Zenit; bullshit.

I applaud Arsenal's stance, we are prepared to pay a decent figure, with some down and the rest in installments, so its not as if we are only offering a bag of cement and a jar of ballbearings now is it???

Anonymous said...

I don't understand what is going on with the finances at the emirates, we were told that we HAD to leave Highbury so we could compete with the likes of the chavs and Manure in the transfer market but it seems to be painfully obvious that we still can't compete, so where is all the extra revenue?

leon said...

i can safely ashame this about the ashivin player,to me its not about the money its what this player brings to table,the real queastion what is the x factor that he has that wilcatt or samir nasri does not,its not as if arsenal are desperete for wingers,i believe wenger is willing to pay big money if the player is top player,now if this player will score at least 15 goals a season ahd at least 20-30 assists then its worth the money,its same with alonso,i feel its taken a bit of time diaby and delinson are starting get alot better ,if you are going to pay 20 mill and more then the player must world world class of the standerd of rinaldo,rubery robin standerd.

zenit are in a very bad position weather he goes to arsenal or not no club is going to pay 20 mill so there have week to for this to happen if not the player will simply wait to november and they will get 5 mill at the most,i feel they will drop there price

Anonymous said...

We're quick enough to demand over the odds for our players e.g £30m for Adebayor.
The trouble is, and it hurts me to say this, our club has no ambition. We shite on about signing super class players yet all we see is super class prices for tickets.
And why do so many Arsenal supporters seem to pride themselves on how much money we make. We're still going on about the Anelka money 10 years on. And by the way Madrid won the Champions league the year he played for them and the f*cker scored in the semi-final. Do Lazio fans still bleat on about selling Veron to Utd. for £26m. Maybe they do, maybe Lazio and Arsenal are on a similar level. Manu on the other hand, didn't just give up on big money signings, they went on to buy Van Nistelrooy, Rooney, Ronaldo, Anderson, Carrick, Nani etc. etc. The result? League, cup, champions league success and a f*cking awesome squad that can cope with injuries.

Nischit said...

The quality of your write up is only matched by the insightful comments. I'm with you on this though. If whats stopping us from signing arshavin is 3 million, for this one time, i hope we go ahead n pay it.

Anonymous said...

Terrible blog. You mentioned in the title of this post that Arsenal have a policy of over spending on youth players?

That is completely unfounded. Could you please give me an exmaple of this?

if I had more time i could give you half a dozen examples to contradict your hapless statement.

Spike said...

Only lazy hacks and twats trying to make an argument ever bring up the Anelka fee.

The squad aint been strengthened adequately IMO, more players shouldve been signed and not just inexperienced kids.

But we moved to the Grove 3 years ago, have we paid off the mortgage? Have all the flats been sold? Is there a fuckin worldwide recession?

These and many more questions will be effin repeated due to the goldfish like memories and tabloid headline mentality of dumbtwats on football blogs...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Anonymous said...

I wish you'd get your information right before blaming Arsenal for the Arshavin deal problems. Look at these articles:

http: // gunnerblog.com/?p=1386

http: // thegoonerforum.wordpress.com/2009/01/20/arsenal-tell-zenit-take-it-or-leave-it/

http: // http://www.sport.co.uk/news/Football/12983/Arsenal_set_to_abandon_Arshavin_deal.aspx

It is ZENIT that are impossible to deal with, they keep changing the goalposts. Arsenal have made THREE bids, offering various add-ons and extras, our latest bid is 16m in total. However now Zenit are demanding that Arsenal pay all agent fees, which is ridiculous. They're now demanding 19m. Read the articles, Zenit are playing a vicious little game with Arshavin, punishing him for wanting to leave.

Anonymous said...

Were Liverpool playing the same game with Alonso? NO AMBITION

Anonymous said...

I wouldnt pay 12mill let alone 15. 10mills about right,Hes 27 an Unproven a few good games 4 club an country a bit like Adebayor,last season we'd have got 30mill this season 10 i think Arshavin is risky bizz we neen proven prem players 14mill Plasios 14mill velencia 10mill noble 10mill Upson All solid 21 days an no signings we aint got time 4 zenit this is the red an white army! nice 1 wrighty

Wrighty7 said...

I'm just saying how I see it.

Arsenal will pay big money for unproven quality youngsters, ie Walcott,

I don't think that is anything WRONG with this.

I do think though that Arsenal need to spend that little extra on PROVEN players.

NOT all the time. But in special cases.

We needed a DM bad, we could have had a WORLD CLASS player in Alonso for a LITTLE extra.

But we didn't and we missed out.

I think some people are missing the point of the article.

Spike said...

If Arshavin aint careful, he'll get a cheeky dose of Plutonium 547 in his Horlicks soon for wanting to leave mother Russia!

Liverpool...Alonso...???

Anonymous said...

Spike, we wouldn't go the extra £2m for Alonso.

Spike said...

Ahh, I get you now!

I thought you meant when the scousers BOUGHT Alonso!

I think in that case the scousers wanted something like £18 mill for Alonso (the same amount Villa wanted for barry), thats about £8mill over the odds for both players IMO!

BUT, if it were true we couldve got Alonso for an extra £2m, then thats effin daft and DOES show a serious lack of foresight.

Then again, he'd have probably broken his leg in his 1st game for us.

Pedro said...

Top question Wrighty... and so very true.

I don't think we need to break the bank to land Arshavin though... because I think we'll get him for £12mill.

The ball is in our court, not theirs... he wants us, if he doesn't get us... his value depreciates, Zenit look stupid.

Lets hope Gazidis pulls this one off!

Alonso... totally agree... what a purchase he would have been!

Anonymous said...

We didn't sign Alonso becasue we don't need him.

Ross said...

Zenit ain't stupid they are just making us sweat!! They clearly want to get as much as possible for him and are putting pressure on us to up the bid. However I doubt they are going to stand by and watch him leave for virtually nothing in Nov!! A fortnight is a long time in the transfer window and anybody can still enter the race. So long as nobody else comes in for guarenteed we will get him as they will be forced to sell! It's just a waiting game now. This is a luxary purchase and not an one we desperately need which is why arsenal are content to wait it out.

Anonymous said...

12 mil plus 3 for incentives and zenit reject, I guess they're holding out for zero next year.

WeGunnerBeKings said...

Nobody knows what happened with Alonso and nobody knows whats happening with Arshavin. Simple fact is if Arsenal pays 20 million for him, they will never get anywhere near that back.

He is a 27 year old who has never been proven to be a quality player, in my oppinion he is far from established. He has played all his football in Russia, and for the same team (senior career). I never heard of him before last year, and that worries me.

We got Walcott for 12 million, and I gaurantee u that if or when he is sold, it'll be for a hell of a lot more than that.

So if Wenger wants to pay a big price for a young player that he sees talent in, I trust that he's making a smart move.

Ole Gunner said...

WeGunnerBeKings,

Exactly right. I'm tired of defending Arsenal's sensible policies really.

I don't personally understand why anyone would argue for paying more than anything is worth to you.

Look at City. What chances do you think there is that if City had offered say 50M, doubled Kaka's wages and kept quiet about the deal, I think they'd have had a better chance of getting Kaka.

Ole Gunner said...

Who here would pay 15k for a car thats worth 12k?

Anonymous said...

FFS! Where is there any evidence that we missed out on Alonso for the sake of a couple of million quid? Liverpool haven't said that, nor have Arsenal and nor has Alonso.
Even if that is the case who are you to say whether we had that extra money or not?
Noody knows how much money there is to spend.
Asharvins club are taking in the media probably becuase they want other teams to come into the hunt.
Arsene and the club are being sensible and i admire their stance.
It would be easy to put the club at risk by paying silly money and gambling. Our Banks have done that and look what sh*t they are in now.

WeGunnerBeKings said...

It's time to get real about Arshavin, does anyone looking at this blog really know if he is as good as the media say he is? I only seen him in the Euro's, in fairness he was excellent, but I'm not quick to judge a player on their international form.

Wenger doesn't normally make rash descisions on buying players, so hopefully we'll get to find out!

WC said...

Define over the top? Wiltord is still the club record transfer at 13M and we have not paid more than that for any youngster. You say to yourself - what's a few million? To Arsenal it's alot especially when you consider 12M for Arshavin then think we need to fork over 15M. We paid a fairly hefty sum for Theo but still didn't break the club record and we could probably sell him for 20M. Wenger and Arsenal have prided themselves on good business and it's the reason we're one of the most valuable clubs. Adebayor bought for 7M and Milan are ready to put up 20-25M, Overmars and Anelka were both sold for over triple their purchasing price. This is how business is conducted and how Arsenal stay out of the black. If Wenger feels a player is worth 20M I wouldn't be surprised if he shells out that money but the reality is not many players are. It is really inflated egos and an inflated market that have agents and clubs believe their players are worth so much.

Spike said...

I think most prople have very little idea how good Arsh is, IMO.

He's been hyped up by the media, but the fact vWengers prepared to stump up what for him and the club is big money, then you gotta think he must be half decent?

Wrighty7 said...

Ole Gunner,

If I wanted that car bad enough then I would pay extra!

Anonymous said...

Wrighty, Wrighty, Wrighty

Paying too much for a youngster is not what Arsene paid for Theo, its what ManU paid for Nani and Anderson.

Theo and Ramsey are good enough as very young men to be better than average Prem players, now. The upside is extra. Nani and Anderson are supposed to step in for Giggs and Scholes, but less than two years in, Mr. Amazing has apparently seen enough to figure he needs to try again, witness the Serbian duo he just bought.

Spike said...

Nani and Anderson cost something like £35 million.

Ole Gunner said...

Wrighty,

That wasn't the question though :))

Would you pay 15k for a 12k car, even if you really wanted it?

But really my point is that if you really really wanted it then it's worth more to you.

I suppose you think Arsenal should want Arshavin (or Alonso) more but that's different from saying they should pay over the odds.

And the argument about if you dont buy this player you could lose Champions League football is disingenous. You could buy the player and still lose champions league football.

WeGunnerBeKings said...

good post wrighty, u got a real good debate going.

JonJon said...

top stuff wrighty

you'd pay 15k for a 12k car if it would be the diferance in wining or losing a 100k reward money race and getting an average girl or a stunning one, if you get my point

arshavin could be the differance this season btween coming 5th or winning the title

by not paying 3mil extra we could lose over 30mil in the long run

every transfer is a risk, but its also a risk not making the transfer

its all about the rewards mate, if we qualify for the CL, that extra 3mil would be pittence

we payed over the odds for theo, ramsey, nasri, reyes, none of which were proven, arshavin is proven and its time to loosen the strings and get our man

in the modern football world, every player is overpriced, but teams still buy them because of the eventual rewards,

yes we have a sensible policy, but if we can find 10mil a time for a 17-21 year old who nobody has heard of, and we can spend 800mil on bricks and mortar, surley we can fork out 15mil for the 6th best player in the world?????

hes gotta be better than playing eboue, denilson, diaby, vela on the wing

arshavin is top top class, 15mil is fuckall

and i hear what your saying about CL football may still not be guareteed by breaking the bank, but come on mate, our transfer record stands at 13mil and has done for the past 9years,

we gotta move on with the times, we dont have to go spend 30mil a time on one player, but 15mil??? for the worlds 6th best player????

comeon, wiltord was a nobody, he scored one memorable goal for france and we broke the record for him, than he left on a free, so i dont buy into the resale thing either.

wiltord helped us recoup the money buy helping us to win trophies and this is the exact same thing, arshavin will help us to win trophies, lets face it, we dont have much chance with the players we have at the minute, and we have so many players out, the season could be over for us before they come back, we have to reinforce and we have to do it now, if we miss out on arshavin it will be a mistake IMO

ethan_Gun said...

With Arsenal, whose record transfer fee paid is £13million, having so far refused to match that figure - with them looking to lay out around £12m plus add-ons - the clubs appear to be at an impasse, although Zenit have indicated an improved cash bid up to £15million would secure the player's services.

SO we are talking a difference of 3 million for the 6th best ranked player in the world ! Just fucking pay it and move on !

the spuds get Palacios , man city get je jong .. and we would rather waste the whole window just pissing into the wind over 3 mil !!(1 home game gate receipts) FFS splash the cash and secure the purchase , the nasri deal was the same ...long..protracted and fuckin painful !

And its not like arsene hasnt gone public on this , it will be a serious PR disaster if wenger ends up with egg on his face , it could effect next year tickets renewals and morale .

theres more riding on this than just a good player joining the ranks , its about ambition !!!

or lacking it

good post Wrighty agree with the statement , we pay over the odds for the youngsters , its about time we got in some readi- made class !

Anonymous said...

no i disagree with this
over the odds for established players is huge in comparison for over the odds for youngsters
5-10m rather than 1-2m
and why wuld u wana pay 15-20m for arshavin when theres no guarantee hes going to adapt to this league

i do agree to an extent about the contracts tho
walcott and adebayor should not have been given higher salaries this year
adebayor shuld have been told to repeat last years succes and walcott hasnt done enough to justify 40k (?)
if thats how wer gna treat everyone wer in trouble, it seems that our players can take us for a ride

Anonymous said...

last night's game was a real hum dinger wasn't it - no thanks to Tottenham Hotspur. They didn't turn up, their players to a man had an absolute Weston Super Mare and once again Harry is in the papers moaning about just about everything apart from his own tactics and game plan (or lack of...)

When he took over he inherited a 'decent squad' of players in his own words. Since then his Spurs side went on a decent run but have since slumped and are still well and truly in the mire. They scraped through to the Milk Cup final last night and Harry is all over the papers this morning saying that he won't play his best players on Saturday because he can't risk them - he's basically saying "sod the FA Cup". And there was naive old me thinking it was just the foreign managers who did the historic trophy down. He, his son and his cohorts (Tim Sherwood, Sir Les etc etc) are the first ones to slag off any foreign manager that rests players in the FA Cup, saying they don't understand the British game or the passion and history of the cup.

Yet there's no criticism of him today in the papers for admitting he's going to throw Saturday's game against Man U. Neither is there any widespread criticism of him for the shocking way they are playing football at the moment, the mediocre results he's achieving or the ludicrous amounts of cash he's lashing out left right and centre on players. It seems Redknapp himself is above criticism.

Bah, I'm rambling a bit here. I just wanted to vent my spleen I suppose. Harry is not the best English manager around. He is not a man that runs a club on a shoestring budget and achieves amazing results - he's a decent man manager that splashes the cash and achieves below par results. And he has a tendency to walk when things get tough. If he was your average Carlos Kick a Ball, the media would be all over this. But as we all know, Harry is a media darling (of sorts) - he scratches their backs with stories and stuff and in return he has a get out of jail free card that means he's immune from negative press coverage. And to boot, he looks like a celeriac.

Mark Modi said...

The problem with establish player, if they didn't have more than 100k per week they will surely reject it. That's the problem that was created by the club finance by billionare like chealsea and man city. They really disturb the market now. 8 years ago we might can have Kaka for 25million and offer him 75k per week. now man city willing to spend 91m pound and offer him salary up to 150k per week. How can we Arsenal can compete in the transfer market. even if MU want to sell Ronaldo, Arsenal never afford to pay for him. Not his transfer fee and salary. Market now only allow you to get average player for 20m and salary of 80k per week. So that's why youth will be better with our current financial. Our youngster still can rip team appart. Look what happen to Chelsea and MU. Just wait and see where we this year. Last year we almost win the title and this year we only trailing by 6 points. Remember year 1997-1998 where we trail 12 points and still win the double after final game of the season. Come Arsenal. Give us the supporter something to cheer for this season.