Saturday, 24 May 2008

Will Flamini and Hleb leaving affect morale at Arsenal?

I wrote yesterday about Le Boss at the end of the season stating we needed to keep the squad together and add two-three players.

As I said that has failed. We have lost two, Flamini and Hleb, so we need now to add on at least four-five players as replacements and add-ons.

Its simple maths.

Maybe I have been slightly pessimistic the last couple of post's but that's only because I care and worry about Arsenal, even if we are in the capable hands of Arsene Wenger.

But the worrying thing for me really is the time it takes the replacements to settle in and the effect on morale in the squad by Flamini and Hleb leaving.

The Premiership is a hard place to adapt too. Ask Hleb, it took him two years and the faith Wenger showed in him has slapped Le Boss in the face, but that's a different matter.

It may take time for the players brought in to adapt and that is worrying.

However the main concern for me is what effect will Flamini and Hleb leaving have on the squad?

To us Gooners, well most of us, we see Flamini and Hleb as greedy, money-grabbing, all they can get bastards.

But to the rest of the remaining squad, they were/are friends and I'm sure that friendship will be missed.

Cesc, Flamini and Hleb were best mates and while at the moment I'm sure Cesc is content with Arsenal, who's to say the other two won't influence future decisions made by our little gem from afar?

Its easy to say, good riddance to the pair and sod right off, I certainly have done plenty of that myself! But thinking about it, what effect will it have on the rest of the squad?

Players come and go, it happens to Arsenal more than most, but it was clear to see how liked the pair were at Arsenal.

The squad seem close-knit and I hope that those two leaving doesn't put doubts in the rest of the squads minds.

Keep it Goonerish...........


1979gooner said...

I think you're being a bit harsh on Flamini. He was the complete pro during his time with us and never complained when not in the team, and he does have a point, if we had believed in him more and offered him a new contract last summer he'd still be with us.

This is in contrast to Hleb whose behaviour has been a disgrace.

I don't think we'll miss Hleb much, with the return of Vela, bringing in another top winger and with Walcott developing so well.

Flamini will be hard to replace. Will Gilberto he good enough, will Diaby come in, or will Toure be converted to a new position, or maybe a new signing?

TOPGUN said...

I dont think Wrighty is being harsh on the pair at all. They can fuck off!
But Wrighty does have a point. If the squad are as close as Wenger and the players say then surely they will be upset at them both leaving?

Anonymous said...

Wenger bangs on about how close this squad is, so the fuckers leaving will upset some others?

True or not?

Pedro said...

Wrighty, some good points raised there.

Afternoon Wrighty,

I would say wait to see what Le Boss does in the transfer market. If we sell Hleb then bring in Arfa and Nasri... I don't think the squad will be too disrupted.

If he sells Hleb and promotes from within, we could be in trouble.

Hleb and Flamini have both acted in a deceitful way... Let's hope the curse of Arsenal continues!

1979gooner said...

Flamini was played out of position for one season, worked his socks off and performed well reaching CL final.

He then sat on the bench most of the next season.

He then had a fantastic year last year.

His contract was up.

He respected his contract and never disrespected the club.

There is no way any Arsenal fan should feel bitterness or resent to Flamini.

He was perfectly entitled to do what he did.

1979gooner said...

how was Flamini deceitful?

gunnergossip said... for arsenal news updated 24/7

Pedro said...

Respectful? He told Arsene he would sign, then he reneged on that verbal agreement. Far from respectful.

If you think playing out of position for £25k a week is hardship, that is your opinion... if you think refusing to play that position the next season is respecting the club... well, your views on respect differ to mine.

If he was going to leave he should have told the manager early on... Just like Didier Drogba did, that would have been respectful.

Most Arsenal fans are bitter about Flamini... we've been taken for a ride.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the coach is going to remedy the situation.

1979gooner said...

One, I never mentioned the word 'hardship', you did.

Two, I don't believe Flamini did promise Wenger that he would sign, if you think he did then can you provide any evidence for this?

Third, do he really refuse to play for the club in a certain position? again where's your evidence for this?

I think there are a fair few gooners who are not bitter towards Flamini, there simply isn't good reason to be in my opinion.

Le Grove said...

Ok, I am not going to get into a long drawn out argument here; it normally ends up in you writing a story about me or my site...

I will however, answer your questions.


Two, I don't believe Flamini did promise Wenger that he would sign, if you think he did then can you provide any evidence for this?


"The deadline moved for negotiation problems. Only he could tell you [whether he will go or not]. For me yes he stays, but does he tell me the complete truth, I don’t know.”

Q2: Do he really refuse to play for the club in a certain position? Again where's your evidence for this?


“I can’t believe it’s a reaction at this stage by Arsenal because he insisted at the start of the season on playing midfield rather than at left-back.

“After all, it was a midfielder that Arsenal bought in Mathieu and he has played well whenever called on in that position.”

Flamini’s lawyer Alexandra Missirli.

Finally, you said:

'Flamini was played out of position for one season'

So what? Why is that even a point? Why would you mention it if you didn't think it was unfair in some way?

He is a professional footballer... if you play for Arsenal you shouldn't care where you play as long as you are getting a game.

Anyway, nice post Wrighty, catch you later!

Wrighty7 said...

Cor blimey I love a good debate!!!

1979gooner said...

very funny, if you will ban polite dissent on your site then I'll have to express it somewhere thanks,

back to the points, it seems that the evidence to back up your assertions is a tad lacking,

1- it doesn't look like he ever made a promise to Arsene, there is always going to be a poker style element to contract negotiations like this, maybe he was very close to staying! it can't have been an easy decision for him

2- so he wanted to play in midfield! what a suprise, he's a midfielder, doesn't look like he 'refused' as you claimed

It's easy to see everything through only one's own eyes as a fan and then be bitter and twisted towards all players who leave, I don't think that's particularly productive.

The Flamster was a model pro who always gave 100%, he's chosen to go to Italy to one of the best clubs in Europe, fair play to him, I wish him well.

Pedro said...

Well it seems you are disagreeing for the sake of it now.

Here are the facts:

1: He reneged on a verbal agreement. As pointed out by Arsene. If you disagree, you are calling one of the most respected men in football a liar.

2: He was not a model professional as he refused to play at left back. As outlined by his lawyer. That is why Arsene dropped him for the second half of last year.

I have supplied conclusive evidence to back up my initial statements... as requested.

Job done in my eyes. If you still think he is model pro... fantastic.

I don't.

1979gooner said...

I could say the same, that you're disagreeing for the sake of it, but I won't, you're entitled to your opinion and interpretation of events.

I don't just write off people who disagree with me as doing it for the sake of it, that would then mean that I thought the world revolved around myself.

Each to their own. As far as modern footballers go Flamini was a good pro in my opinion, I've md my case, I'll leave it at that, cheers.

Anonymous said...

And the winner by k.o........PEDRO

California Steve said...

Hey, who CARES about Flam's motives, what he said, etc.?

For what it's worth, I do think he led Arsene -- and the fans -- to believe all season that he intended to sign and it was just a formality. And I believe that deep down, he already knew or suspected he'd get some big offers and this was his shot to cash in.

Very few people seem to note this, but Flamini's play dropped off in the second half of the season, mostly because he was trying too hard to get forward and become involved in attacking moves. His great first half was more about hustling, non-stop ball retrieval and getting it going in the right direction.

In retrospect, he might have been auditioning for Milan and others -- but to be fair, as others have mentioned he WAS out of contract.

But enough of that -- it's my opinion. I felt a bit deceived. I just wish Matty had kept his mouth shut about how much "we still have to accomplish."

The point, though, is that he's gone and so is Hleb, and we haven't seen the last player who loves everyone when things are terrific then suddenly has "problems" when there's more money floating around elsewhere.

Wenger is a very bright guy, he grasps this new marketplace and how players will act in it.

So I'm anxious to see how he puts the pieces back together -- and what he adds, either from within the club or from outside.

We have a glut of young talent, which is a great way to make sure your long-term future doesn't depend entirely on the loyalty of Belorussians fond of ice cream.

How quickly will those young players develop? How much experience is necessary to add balance?

It's going to be fascinating to watch.

Anonymous said...

Isn't rather childish to say that every player who leaves the club is a money grabbing cunt? What if in your job another company offered to double your wages for doing the same thing, what you stay loyal to your employers? Would everyone call you a cunt if you left? Football is no different to any other job, except it's a short career, sometimes dangerously short, you need to take the money to secure your future. When you retire you will have at least another 50 years to live with no other job and maybe a family to support.

And what if a player just wants to move to a different climate? Different country. Why not? They are in a fortunate position to be able to do that. Wouldn't you like to spend a few years living in beautiful Italy or Spain?

My only issues is how players leave the club. Flamini did nothing wrong, no grumbling or complaining or criticising. Hleb could have behaved better but it's more his greedy agent doing the shit stirring.

If Wenger wants to build a team for the future he should perhaps look towards home grown players. Foreigners carry more risk.

jeffers said...

anonymous 19:50, spot on. I have no real problem with either of these 2 leaving or the manner in which they have left. we were on the verge of selling flamini to birmingham last year. I think its a credit to the guy that he got himself motivated this season and showed milan he is worth a spot in their side. If my boss tried to offload me to a crappy competitor, I am not sure i would show the same attitude. Hleb has also been here a few years without complaint or issue. He fancies a new challenge, so let him go for it. we have plenty of time to find an eager replacement. wenger is quite happy to let players go when it suits, so i can't see that there is any cause for complaint when the sitaution is turned around. another observation i have is that there are numerous blogs out there crowing for a change in the team. people moving on is a chance to do this, but as soon as it happens we get stories complaining about money grabbing cunts, they were never that good etc.. i used to enjoy reading blogs as a laugh amongst fellow fans, but alot seem to have developed delusions of grandure..not a direct comment on wrighty7 by the way, but just check on the latest rubbish on arsenal muse for instance. if your main point is crap the least you can do is write well..

Horace the Goat said...


Nice work fella.
I find it funny that the twat from le grove came on here arguing with another Gooner. Funny coz if you go on le grove and dont call wenger a cunt, you are banned.

Wankers! The shittest blog site around.

utd4ever59 said...

It took Fla-money and helb-money two to three season to adapt to EPL and find their true form.Once they found their form they play with a "Come And Get Me"pleas to clubs who could afford big money and then gave their own lame excuses for leaving.Take it as a lesson learn and Arsenal and all other clubs should negotiate new deals for players as soon as their contracts has no more then 2 seasons left.Then the driving seat is with the club and not the players.No more kid--ding please Arsene Wenger cos Arsenal need experience and class players to win trophies.Three seasons without a trophy and if you are in LA Liga or Serie A you would have been sack by now.

Anonymous said...

And you are obviously some fucking glory hunter, or didnt you know Fergie went a few years without winning shit?

Anonymous said...

Fergie actually has only ever gone 2 seasons without winning a trophy!! Wenger has gone 3 three and four if you count the fact that the 2005 FA Cup final ended in a draw!!!! (I hate penalty shootouts...either winning or losi ng them!!!!!)

Lets have a debate about that ..... here's my thoughts...

Penalty shoot outs should be abolished ...they encourage and a lot of time reward negative play, it is not winning a trophy by playing football it is giving someone a trophy after a team does better in a "schoolyard" kick in!!

What a crap way of "winning" (and I use that term very loosly as no team has actually won the football match/trophy if it has gone to penalties it was a draw!)..... if a competition has gone on for 9 months or more as the CL does what a terrible way to decide the final outcome...I repeat it's crap!

I know a lot of softie foreign players and officials hated it but surely it should go to a replay? But as an added excitement extra time could be used to remove a defender every 5 mins until say a min of 6 players per side were left on the field ... teams would then have the space to win the game and it would be a matter of tactics to keep your fresh subs for extra time in some cases. And before someone says it wouldn't work as it is too difficult to officiate.....sorry but I actually refereed a tournament in France that had this system and it worked very well, a seperate official is appointed to each team and he is then responsible for collecting the identified defenders who are nominated by the team manager at full time in the order he has them removed, that offical is then responsible for ensuring that the player leaves the pitch at the right time .... once notified the player must leave the pitch within a minute otherwise he is sent off and the next player on the list is removed immediately (so meaning that a team could be an extra man down for the rest of the game, and trust me it works....teams go for it and know that they have to attack.

Mondo said...

@ Horace the goat
yeah my comment got deleted on Le Grave because I called them "reactionary simpletons". Whoops!

Anyhow I reluctantly have to agree that I never forgave Flamini after Cuntly left and Clichy was out, he refused to play left back.
I think we had something like 7 different players at left back thst season, including Freddie, god bless him and Send-him-off to name a few.
Flamini had a great year no doubt, but I guess I was always suspicious that he was playing for his contract.

Anonymous said...

I hope arsene wenger feels the pressure to perhaps change the wage structure to keep important players like fabregas in the squad. I guess it'll be best if he realises who are the players who really deserve a wage rise and who are the ones who can jolly well leave the squad because we can get good replacements. hleb and flamini have been good for us, but they can be replaced easily

Wrighty7 said...

Please can people stop bashing Le-Grove on here.

I appreciate if you dont get on with the authors of Le-Grove, but I do.

It makes it hard for me to read and puts me in a difficult position as well as I get on with Geoff/Pedro and yourselves, my readers and posters.

I don't want to fall out with Le-Grove and I don't want to fall out with readers to my site.

I'm sure you all appreciate the difficult position I have in keeping the peace! So to speak!

Thank you.